Daily Rotten Forum Experience

From: recurvebow [traditional archer & aspiring biogeography professor]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 08:34

I like that idea! And yes, I have to admit, I do enjoy porn for whatever reason. Of course, the Bible isn't all that clean either with the Book of Solomon and all these stories in the early part of the Bible :P Just that the Bible, especially that awful King James translation (which makes my textbooks look like easy reading... and I'm talking stuff like "Complex Analysis for Mathematicians" not "Biogeography"). They should have more of these Bibles-for-Porn trades. I swear, the Bible is probably one of the most damaging books around, takes susceptible minds, messes with them, and helps turn them into mindless zombies who go out of their way to try to conver anything that moves and/or spend all their resources to support this brainwashing. I know this, watched a lot of people go on this path and did some "infiltration" on my old college's Christian Fellowship. Hats off to these atheists!

Bibles-for-Science Books trades would be cool too, but that's just the absolute geek in me.

From: impaled [David]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 08:34

Funny it happened in Texas of all places.

From: popo [insert witticism]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 08:52

I would walk into an adult bookstore even if it was out of my way to be on that assholes' website. I'm not sure who he's thinking it would bother, other than other hypocritical fuckwits like himself. Certainly not the majority of well adjusted bikini bar patrons.

From: splittheatom [Assless]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 08:54

It's a fun idea, but it seems like they're "preaching to the choir". I really doubt your going to get many true believers to exchange their Bibles for porn and "convert".
In fact, I kind of worry that something like this could backfire. The thumpers will be out saying "See: that's all these people are about, porn"! They'll use it to stir up moral outrage in the believers and tell them that this is exactly why you should fear "those godless perverts" who want to ruin "our" society.

We need to spend more time sowing seeds of doubt in the minds of believers, not scaring them away.

From: popo [insert witticism]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:06

I can see that:
'Here's my bible, I've memorized it. Gimme something substantially glossy and easy to clean up.'

From: patmccock [patmccock]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:09

Dumbassery! I consider myself to be a Christian and I love porn! Porn is not a sin. It does not say anywhere in the Bible though shalt not view/enjoy pornography. The Bible is often misinterpreted by idiots who then proceed to to scream eternal damnation to everyone for anything and everything they do. We are all human and we all sin. God knows this and yet he still loves everyone, even the atheists and muslims.

From: theallseeingear [Bavid Dyrden]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:20

This has lowered the value of porn.

From: poorjon [poorjon]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:25

I kind of like the concept of trading in your tired old bibles for brand new science books. Too bad that the opposite would be far more successful.

From: thumsum [Giv' em some thumb]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:28

The only thing i am looking forward to is giving up my self respect in retern for a big old bag of hash. Like shopping bag size. Wake me up when its possible.

From: robwrigley
Date: 3-Dec-2005 09:35

Hey I like that idea, recurve:

Trade in a Bible, get a brand new copy of 'Origin of Species'.

Rob

From: biffbaggo [Tripping the Biff]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 10:24

People who harass legal businesses for operating legally are criminals and should be jailed. This is also such a classic. It's a foregone conclusion to me that people like this John Reneer like to bugger people. I wonder if it was an adult or a child who he buggered? That's one way for a child molester to endear himself to the Xians, isn't it? Why don't those people who shoot sex offenders shoot him?

From: azdollarbill [Jim Jones]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 10:48

Talk about hypocrisy, the guy leading the demonstrations, & the web site is a convicted felon, with Sodomy among his convictions. So he is a convicted sex offender, he doesn't tell you that on his site. It is typical of the right wing nuts. They are the epitome of the "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy.

From: zoralink37 [Kyle]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:03

Jesus, why can't atheists just leave well enough alone? It's funny, because atheists always accuse religious of trying to shove their beliefs down the atheists' throats, but in reality the atheists make the bigger stink about the whole thing. If you asked 1000 Christians if they spread the word of God, honestly, I doubt even 10 of them would say they did. Most people just practice their beliefs in private and expect others to respect that.

If the atheists are so concerned about a book doing evil through misinterpretation, maybe they should go to the Middle East and start a "Camels for Korans" trade, because there is a whole lot more confusion and violence stemming from that book right now then there is from the Bible.

From: arch [Arch]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:10

Homer: Hey flanderzzzzz, can I borrow your bible?
Flander: Okily-dokily neighborino! Say, Homer, what do you need it for?
Homer: Oh. You'll see.....

From: mraverage [Sr. Promedio]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:12

Too bad that yesterday's teenage-christians-murder-girls-parents couple didn't have a bible for porn group in their area.

Is there a mail order version of this? It could save a lot of heartache.

From: jesuschrist [Your Faith has healed you]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:13

My written words for porn! I must have died and gone to Heaven! Oh wait...

Back to the matter, why would you do that? The Bible that is authored by me is porn. Don't believe me? Then burn in Hell!

Abraham fucked his half sister,
Lot fucked his 2 daughters,
David fucked 10 concubines and 2 wives and numerous battle virgins,
Solomon fucked 1,000 chicks (700 wives, 300 concubines)
And I fucked my mother Mary, future wife of Joseph, well someone had to break her virginity.

From: biffbaggo [Tripping the Biff]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:18

I can't blame atheists for wanting to stop the Bible. Tens of millions murdered, still counting. Societies and minds damaged beyond repair. Living in a primitive state at least a thousand years behind where we should be. Creating a system of things that guarantees thousands of years of strife, destruction, mental and physical damage, and the destruction of the life on the planet. These and more are the bible-fuckers guilty of.

We're sick and tired of being murdered.

From: popo [insert witticism]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:26

forward thinking German protestants seem to be one step ahead of the curve, with their combination:

[co.uk]

...pastor Bernd Grasser said: "It's just wonderful when teenagers commit themselves with their hair and their skin to the bible."

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:30

It's a fun idea, but it seems like they're "preaching to the choir". I really doubt your going to get many true believers to exchange their Bibles for porn and "convert".
In fact, I kind of worry that something like this could backfire. The thumpers will be out saying "See: that's all these people are about, porn"! They'll use it to stir up moral outrage in the believers and tell them that this is exactly why you should fear "those godless perverts" who want to ruin "our" society.

We need to spend more time sowing seeds of doubt in the minds of believers, not scaring them away.

Finally, some sense is spoken by the anti-religious crowd! Too bad most of the rest of us are trying to fight ignorance with more ignorance.

From: azdollarbill [Jim Jones]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:37

Very funny link, & story Popo. You should have submitted it to rotten, lol.

From: countjulian [Jack Death]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:40

Finally Rotten accepted one of my shining submissions.

First to the guy who said that porno is not against the Bible's teachings, I have to ask, what are you smoking? In Matt. 5:28 Jesus says that looking at a woman with lust is the exact same thing as committing adultery. In the next verse he recommends that people should cut out their eyes rather than continue to look at women with lust (the exact same sentiment is repeated by Jesus in Mark 9:47). Porno is definitely not on the Jesus itinerary.

To the guy who complained about atheists "shoving stuff" down the throats of believers: get real. For one thing, the group was taking Qurans as well as Bibles, and would also have traded porn for Zend-Avestas, Talmuds, Vedas, Ahadith, or any other "sacred scripture." And for another thing, Christian missionaries spend millions if not billions a year organizing and training themselves in psychology in order to convert non-believers. My tax dollars get funneled into supporting the celebration of the birth of a deity who I do not believe in. Our President openly quotes the Bible.The Fundies are everywhere. For a some good info on nutziod Christian aggression from a Hindu perspective, see here [christianaggression.org] . For info on the current push to recreate America as a theonomist (read theocratic) Christian Dominionist state, see here [theocracywatch.org] . If anything, we atheists need to be more "evangelistic", not less so.

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:23

My tax dollars get funneled into supporting the celebration of the birth of a deity who I do not believe in.

If the country didn't celebrate imaginary people, our retailers would never see profit without significantly raising prices and cutting costs. Most retailers are just now breaking even for the year this week.

From: melvin69 [John Bong]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:26

I was trying to find that guy's website but got sidetracked with other stories. Anyway, found out that John Reneer fits the recovering addict profile. He says porn was making him callous to women. He was looking at Playboy before he was 18, then harder mags later. He was convicted of armed robbery before he was 21. He was convicted of first degree sodomy after raping a woman that owed him drug money so he was a drug dealer too.

I find those that are weak tend to attack what they are addicted to. If you listen to what individual Christians attack (those that do, not all do), that is what they fear. It is the way ex-smokers attack smokers after quiting.

Also found 39 yr old male sex offender shoots self dead after being stopped by police with a 17 yr old girl runaway. He was convicted of lewd and lascivious battery on a victim 12 to 15 years old three years ago. The charges involved the same girl, so he has been with her since she was about 13 or 14. The mom was ok with it but the step-dad wasn't. If you look through the photos, you can glimpse the top of her blond hair sitting in the polic car.

[local10.com]

And to those that say white guys are perverts, this time it was a black guy tapping that 13 year old pussy.

From: sodomizedjello [sodomizedjello]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:27

brilliant!

From: melvin69 [John Bong]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:28

Perhaps those retailers need to rethink their business plans if it takes this long to break even.

From: gnobs [devon]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:40

Psh the Bible isn't the negative force in the world, as Captain Ryan Walker says. Moreover that people misinterpret many of the statements made and take 'the literal truth' for everything it says. While brought up with an organized religion may seem good for the parents, because they'll 'save' the young, the children won't think about what they're being told, as the source of the information is trusted and more intelligent than they are. If the kids are older and more wise, they could take an objectionable view on what it says, and make a better decision based on what they read.

In areas around where I live, I can't help but notice that many 'christians' know less about the Bible than I do, and I have not been in a Church since I was 8, or have a belief in any specific god for that matter. Maybe that is where all the negativity is coming from: the idiots that are religious because in the end, they'll have something to look forward too.

I, on the other hand, would actually gladly hand over some smut in exchange for a Bible, as I hope some Church group doesn't start doing in response to this. Not being Christian is not what matters - but the guidelines for life it proposes. Plus the damn thing is really interesting... more interesting than a magazine that will get boring after 5 minutes each time I look at it. ;)

From: melvin69 [John Bong]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:43

After reading some comments at www.war-line.com I can see many of these people projecting their own thoughts and feelings on others. 1 woman in the comments section says she was brutally raped by 2 men last year and her husband won't have sex with her anymore because he can't get the mental-image of another man having sex with her. Another guy posts later that it's not her fault, her husband wouldn't go to consoling, but he can understand how her husband feels. What winners we got here. How many guys get married to actual virgins? I thought having a few partners before marriage was normal. What do these bible thumpers think about the guys who their wife sucked off before they were married?

Oh yeah, saw the few pics they posted. A bunch of redneck looking guys mostly.

Also found out that he and his group protested 1 bookstore and the owner turned the water hoses on them. The owner then installed a sprinkler system to turn on whenever the protesters are there.

The protesters whole base is that a little girl was raped and killed in that town by a pervert. Anyone who looks at porn is a pervert, so having an adult store in town will lead to more little girls getting raped and killed.

What simple thinking, wonder what they do with the money for education. I'm pretty sure they don't spend it on new textbooks and well-trained teachers. Probably spent it all putting cameras in the girls' bathroom and gym locker rooms.

From: blissfulgirl [~^-^~]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:45

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 07:06

i dislike porn in general (basically because i'm a woman) but this is still brilliant.

The statement that you don't like porn because you're a woman is ridiculous.

I'm a heterosexual woman and I really enjoy porn, preferring the videos or a good live strip show over the girlie magazines. Being a woman is not the reason you don't like porn, it is far more likely that you don't like it because you are insecure about open expressions of human sexuality and uninhibited displays of the human body and so get no pleasure from viewing it. It's fine that you don't like porn but don't use your gender as an excuse.

From: reader57 [Rotten Reader]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:48

But I get plenty of free porn right here on the internet.

From: canadagirl78 [God, make me chaste. But not yet.]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:49

First, uh, jesuschrist? You've been dead a long damned time, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.... but you didn't write the Bible. Half of it happened before you were born and the other half was written til after your ascension to heaven. It's okay to forget those kinds of little tidbits, I'm sure you've had a fuck load more to think about in the past two millenia.

Anyway, onto business. We all know I love porn, right? Okay. I'm a woman, and I LOVE porn. Liking or disliking porn has little to do with gender and more to do with personal preference.
___________________________________________________________________________
From: zoralink37 [Kyle]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:03

Jesus, why can't atheists just leave well enough alone? It's funny, because atheists always accuse religious of trying to shove their beliefs down the atheists' throats, but in reality the atheists make the bigger stink about the whole thing. If you asked 1000 Christians if they spread the word of God, honestly, I doubt even 10 of them would say they did. Most people just practice their beliefs in private and expect others to respect that.
____________________________________________________________________________

Kyle, exactly what planet are you living on? I admit, yeah, atheists can cause a fuss, but you've GOT to be kidding if you think they make the bigger stink about anything. Ask those same 1000 Christians if they think Under God should be in the POA or if they believe Christianity should be declared the official religion of the states- you'll get a lot more yeses than no's.

The whole fuss about intelligent design was not the atheists being jerks, it's a bunch of fundies pushing religion on par with science and atheists freaking out because RELIGION AIN'T SCIENCE!

The stink about abortion rights? That's not the atheists trying to push beliefs on women who may not agree, a lot of those freaks are only there because Jesus cries when a fetus swirls the tubes. As of right now, there is a fuss because of Alito and his fervent belief that abortion should be severely limited, with the ultimate goal being reversal of Roe v. Wade (according to TSG). This isn't atheists, it's a bible thumper pushing his morality goals on others that may not agree.

Exchanging Bibles for porn is cute and all, and yeah, it makes a bit of a point, but hell, they aren't doing ANYTHING even close to what the bible nuts have been doing to the rest of us for the past... oh, two thousand years or so.

From: melvin69 [John Bong]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:51

Perhaps I am thinking about Lot and his 2 daughters.

I remember a story that the man and 2 daughters were stranded and the daughters wanted to have babies. The sisters got their father drunk then had sex with him, resulting both getting pregnant. God found out about it and blamed the 2 women and let the father go.

Little things like this make me wonder why people can take the bible seriously. If that were to happen today, the father would be in as much trouble as the women. Think they were women, don't remember how old they were suppose to be.

If the drunk defense didn't work, guess he could've said he was sleepwalking. Think God would accept that?

There is a few other parts of the Bible that I found repulsive to my morals but I can't remember them offhand.

From: bonevalleyalco [Harvey Henkelman]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:56

The brutality blueprinted in the christian bible is exceeded only by Mein Kampf (and the koran, of course)

Sadly, I won't be getting any porn out of this deal...I've nothing to trade :(

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:03

""From: antinomianist [AERDNA]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 07:15

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 07:06

i dislike porn in general (basically because i'm a woman) but this is still brilliant.
------
Huh...I like porn in general, maybe because I'm a woman? A lot of women wont admit they like it, or they're neo-feminists who just haven't been introduced to the true dyke porn they would love. (But I'm not saying its you - just so you don't get all grumpy!)""
---------------------

well fair point, i guess.
actually, i have seen a little bit of lesbian porn and it seemed pretty ok (i'm bi, so i'm not going to get grumpy about what you said), the absence of one of thoughs scary shit-eating smiles (or that evil squint thing they seem to be doing sometimes) on the cover girl was a nice element. and no fake tits either. but i think i'm just more of an 'erotica' person, you know....no cum shots or hardcore stuff, and a good photographer and model who knows how to pose, rather than just has big knockers. i just don't find that sexy.

---------------------
""And "Club members this week posted fliers promoting what they call the “Smut for Smut” campaign" - giggles! The title is rather appropriate too, one of my first masterbations was to the Song of Solomon. There's a nice song of sex in there somewhere...don't ask me to find it though, my super highlighet bible is long burned in a fit of agnosticism. ""
---------------------
you may well be kidding a little here, but there are plenty of examples of old hand written bibles that have porn drawn into the illuminations. and i do mean porn not 'examples of people sinning' just plain porn, often male porn. which, baring in mind these things were done by monks, isn't exactly surprising.

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:07

""From: blissfulgirl [~^-^~]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:45

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 07:06

i dislike porn in general (basically because i'm a woman) but this is still brilliant.

The statement that you don't like porn because you're a woman is ridiculous.

I'm a heterosexual woman and I really enjoy porn, preferring the videos or a good live strip show over the girlie magazines. Being a woman is not the reason you don't like porn, it is far more likely that you don't like it because you are insecure about open expressions of human sexuality and uninhibited displays of the human body and so get no pleasure from viewing it. It's fine that you don't like porn but don't use your gender as an excuse. ""

-------------------------
like i said, just a poor choice of words.

but thanks for calling me insecure.

From: frankrizzo [Frank Rizzo]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:17

Porn for bibles?

May God bless these noble crusaders.

From: azdollarbill [Jim Jones]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:23

John Bong, perhaps you better go back & listen to Rush, O Really, & that other guy some more. Your posts are getting more & more Liberal. Are you sure you are you? If your not you, are you an imposter? Just joking.

From: rocco [I'm the funny man!]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:31

From: ciaochowbella [I didn't do it and I wasn't there when it happened]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 07:25

Porn isn't the enemy of women. Christianity is.

Hmmm...I always thought it was the right wingers.

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:33

Ask those same 1000 Christians if they think Under God should be in the POA or if they believe Christianity should be declared the official religion of the states- you'll get a lot more yeses than no's.

The PoA I'll agree with but Ive never heard a Christian say that we should have any official national religion, not even when I used to consider myself a Christian. The only thing I've ever heard that comes to anyone advocating a national belief system comes from Atheists trying to take all religious references from the government and government property.

In Matt. 5:28 Jesus says that looking at a woman with lust is the exact same thing as committing adultery. In the next verse he recommends that people should cut out their eyes rather than continue to look at women with lust (the exact same sentiment is repeated by Jesus in Mark 9:47). Porno is definitely not on the Jesus itinerary.

Then why do they keep painting and sculpting all those hot naked angels we all jerked off to before we heard of porn? I don't think the church is against porn, I think they just want their monopoly back.

I find those that are weak tend to attack what they are addicted to. If you listen to what individual Christians attack (those that do, not all do), that is what they fear. It is the way ex-smokers attack smokers after quiting.

I agree

Jesus, why can't atheists just leave well enough alone? It's funny, because atheists always accuse religious of trying to shove their beliefs down the atheists' throats, but in reality the atheists make the bigger stink about the whole thing.

Come on now, both sides are constantly trying to force their beliefs on each other. Christians have been doing it longer but now that there's enough atheists who are no longer afraid to admit atheism, they've become just as organized and just as loud and just as fucked up as any religion can be in this country. Both sides needs to STFU and leave people the fuck alone.

From: blissfulgirl [~^-^~]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:58

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 13:07

-------------------------
like i said, just a poor choice of words.

but thanks for calling me insecure.

You're welcome I guess if you're actually confirming that is your true issue...I offered a "more likely" explanation of your dislike for porn not a confirmed reason. You are right though, you made a poor choice of words, just because we are women does not make all women the same...just like the type of porn you say you don't like does not constitute all porn that is out there...and it seems that there is even some porn you like so enjoy the stuff that tickles your fancy

From: 8soft [Chest Ironslab]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 14:13

What can I say,I love this !! I wish I'd thought of it! Maybe next time a thumper comes to my door I'll ask him for a trade, his good book for my better magazine! It would be better than tossing it into the recycling bin!

From: antinomianist [AERDNA]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 14:53

From: fitandhappy [Fit]
If its the stupid faces and so not real tits that bother you then maybe you should look at male gay porn - a lot of women like it because it isn't all watching the chic grinding and making fake orgasm noises; its about the cocks we all love.

From: theallseeingear [Bavid Dyrden]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:05

TITS!

ARSE!

NIPPLES!

From: will [william]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:18

I'm rather attached to my bible, but do you think they'd accept my book of mormons - er, my books of mormon (god only knows how I ever got two of the tedious things)?

They can have my "philosphy of meditation" by haridas chaudhury too, and, as long as the porn isn't that lifeless corporate type featurying generic large-haired women with inflated breasts, they can even have my bhagavad-gita!

From: 8soft [Chest Ironslab]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:18

If it's real that fitandhappy wants she should check out the horse video!
Plenty of cock and lots of real noises! Very f'd up other than that!

From: will [william]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:24

regarding "looking at women with lust", I have always taken it from context that he was referring to looking at women only in those cases where actually having sex with them would be adulterous, still a pretty harsh restriction, but it allows at least single men to look lustfully at single women.

while women presumably can all get as much of an eyeful as they like.

as for the two girls who fucked their father, you should know that this passage of the bible is recounting something which happened, not saying that it should have happened, or that it was morally right.

regarding photographing people patronizing porn shops, how is this legal?
it figures that the sort of person who had no empathy for the rights of the people he molested would also have none for the rights of law-abiding porn fans.

From: coprophiliac [coprophiliac]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:25

This is great, but these guys must be seriously spoiling for a punchup. My uni isn't majorly religious but if i pulled a stunt like this I guarantee I'd be attacked by angry bible-thumpers within a day. The whole 'turn the other cheek' thing doen't seem to apply to most of those guys.

From: herbmorrison [HerbMorrison]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:34

I just love the bit about the preacher saying "There are no atheists, only fools." Relgious people in general tend to be less intelligent and superstitious than atheists or agnostics.

From: anubus [kevin]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 16:20

I was wondering where my good book went

From: backuptheholler [Junebug James]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 16:23

I (!!!) was asked to join a prayer circle at work. I replied that I do not believe in public prayer per Matthew 6:5. My co-worker replied that she hated when people base a belief on some little sentence in the Bible instead of following the words of Jesus. I responded that it is part of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount and states "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men." and Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret". I love it when fundies are left standing with their mouths gaping open in their apparent ignorance of their own "savior's" words.

From: lohitasha [dasa]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 16:54

From: zoralink37 [Kyle]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 11:03

Jesus, why can't atheists just leave well enough alone? It's funny, because atheists always accuse religious of trying to shove their beliefs down the atheists' throats, but in reality the atheists make the bigger stink about the whole thing. If you asked 1000 Christians if they spread the word of God, honestly, I doubt even 10 of them would say they did. Most people just practice their beliefs in private and expect others to respect that.

If the atheists are so concerned about a book doing evil through misinterpretation, maybe they should go to the Middle East and start a "Camels for Korans" trade, because there is a whole lot more confusion and violence stemming from that book right now then there is from the Bible.

________________________________________________________________

Yeah !

Yeah, let's gag those atheists. Let them exercise their First Amendment rights somewhere else, some other country where they kill people for not believing like everybody else does, for not believing like I do.

Yeah !

One of the surest signs of maturity is the ability to laugh at oneself. That sure leaves out a lot of born-againers.

From: tucanscrew [three's more fun]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 17:24

.....Bible?

From: lohitasha [dasa]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 17:26

From: will [william]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 15:18

They can have my "philosphy of meditation" by haridas chaudhury too, and, as long as the porn isn't that lifeless corporate type featurying generic large-haired women with inflated breasts, they can even have my bhagavad-gita!

________________________________________________________________

No!

No!

Not your Bhagavad Gita.

No!

From: pussi [pussi]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 18:18

I know I can't get an entire magazine for it, but can I get like one page of porn for this book of mormon my mom gave me?

From: commonsense [please]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 18:33

Trade 'em this one for a bible:

Then hand it back to them.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 19:34

william, you're wrong wrong wrong. women NEVER get enough eyeful. men are ugly, ugly ugly because they've been on prettiness strike for three millenia. why do you think the amish have to grow beards but shave their stashes, the hasidim jews forced to grow sideburns, the muslims not allowed to shave at all? why do you think prettyboys get beat up? why do you think they're the un-fair sex? y'all need to stick up for yourselves and you won't do it. we need more brian molkos. mmmm brian brian brian.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 19:44

zoralink37 [Kyle]:... in reality the atheists make the bigger stink about the whole thing "

no, mediawhore activists in general just make a big stink.
----------------------------------------------------------
aulduron [Aulduron]: Ive never heard a Christian say that we should have any official national religion

i have, but i've heard more say that we already do, that the constitution was based on the bible, etc.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 19:46

rotten, if we have to preview our posts before adding them, you might as well make the spell check automatic. you know, while you're "at it", cause some of us are obviously borderline.

From: biffbaggo [Tripping the Biff]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 22:45

So how cum that guy who killed the registered sex offenders couldn't do just one more before they locked him up?

From: doczzz [dwarf fusion]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 23:43

Ummm....

FUCK CHRISTMAS!

yeah.

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 02:01

I am a devout atheist (reformed) myself, but one of my pet sayings is:

There are few things worse than a proseltyzing atheist.

That is more directed at morons like the O'hairs, and folks who get in a lather over stuff like manager scenes in front of city hall. What the kids in that news article are doing is more like a college prank than preaching the good non-word.

Rob

From: mikeisgreen [Mike]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 02:09

Get your faith out of my face! I have no problem with people wanting to have faith in the Great Gazoo, Allah, God, Yahweh, Buddha, Jehovah, Shiva, Absolutely Nothing, or whatever. Just don't shove it down my throat. Religious nutjobs are those who believe their thing and consider everyone else to be wrong and try to convert them. By that definition, these atheists are religious nutjobs. They believe in the absence of God so strongly that they are trying to actively convert people.

I'm glad I live Downtown Montreal. No one has ever tried to approach me and get me to "believe". I'd probably end up in prison if someone did. It is spiritual rape. Get your dick out of my ass and your [whatever represents your faith] out of my face.

These nutjob atheists are as bad as any other religious nutjob trying to win converts. Believe whatever you want and leave everyone else the fuck alone.

Goddamned missionaries, atheist or otherwise. The only good missionary is the position, and even that can get boring.

Now, I'd like to talk to you about the Way of the Cosmic County Carnival, a new and exciting religion where [ghaachk! Let go of my throat!]...

From: biffbaggo [Tripping the Biff]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 02:43

It's spiritual rape for them to take away my porn too. They took away science a long time ago, and they never should have been allowed power after that.

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 03:08

One of the most surreal things I have ever seen was a woman handing out pamphlets in front of the NBC building, detailing how some show on NBC 'Misrepresents Satanists' by depcting them as evil baby-killers, and such.

She was deadly serious. One of my great regrets in life is that I didn't confront her. I was too bowled over by the pamphlet to respond. I am sure I still have it around here. I have seen such a thing one or twice more.

When th Satanists start crying about how they are being treated unfairly by the media, there is something really wrong. I mean, what is the point of being a Satanist if you are going to be a pussy about it? May as well call yourself 'Evil Fucknut', and then get upset when a passerby by says, 'Hey Look! An Evil Fucknut'.

Ever since LeVey passed away, that whole organization has gone down the tubes. I've read LeVey. I think his response would have been "Hey great! Free publicity on NBC!'.

Rob

From: deathbox [Pinky]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 03:41

What can i say.... I'm amazed by thiz wise people of this ya forum.
Brava, people! Brava! Wise and funny too. This is why i like americans.
They are so funny and wise! Yep! Like Micky Mouse. Haha. Haha. hahahaha...
Im such a cynical bastard, i am.

From: splittheatom [Assless]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 04:29

robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 02:01

I am a devout atheist (reformed) myself, but one of my pet sayings is:

There are few things worse than a proseltyzing atheist.

That is more directed at morons like the O'hairs, and folks who get in a lather over stuff like manager scenes in front of city hall. What the kids in that news article are doing is more like a college prank than preaching the good non-word.

-------------------------

Quite true. Atheists often seem to have a hard time picking the most meaningful battles to fight. To me at least, it isn't so much about things like removing "In God We Trust" from the currency or getting "under God" out of the PoA.
It's a much deeper, more fundamental fight to save intellectual honesty, intellectual freedom, reason, science, etc. -- you know, all those enlightenment values and ideas that make the present so much better than the "Dark Ages".

My fear is that the guys exchanging porn for Bibles are really only confirming the worst stereotypes that believers have about non-believers, like we're only in it for the hedonism. Believers need to know that guilt-free pleasure is only a fringe benefit. They need to know that true freedom of the mind, not living a lie just because it makes you feel better, knowing you can handle the big impassive universe just using your own fortitude and wits with no help from "imaginary friends", is at the core of disbelief.

From: superpants
Date: 4-Dec-2005 08:58

shouldn't it be "porn for bibles" insead? "bibles for porn" implies that bibles are being given out in exchange for porn.

From: sodomizedjello [sodomizedjello]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 09:48

now that i'm thinkin about it, when i was in christian preschool the illiterate (i know becuase she's my mom) "teacher" told us that if someone walked in the room with a gun and said, "if you believe in the lord jesus christ, stand up so i can shoot you in the head," we should stand up and if we even thought about keeping our mouth shut and our asses in the seat it was a terrible and immoral thing to do and we didn't deserve to be in her classroom. the apocolypse was a diurnal conversation between adults, toddlers, and the other youngins. i was terrified until my intellect surpassed the level of thinking it takes to take any of that stuff seriously. somewhat random but i thought it was interesting.

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 10:27

Split the Atom:

I find myself in the very awkward position of believing in Religion, but not God.

That is, I believe religion is a (mostly) positive force in society, and something in which everyone should have a background. I went to churches of various flavors all through-out my childhood, and I tend to get on better with people who are faithful (in a laid-back kind of way) than I do with raving believers or non-believers. Mostly, what I ask is that you have seriously considered the question.

My big problem with the Devout on either side of the fence (God-fearing or Atheist) is that they are both missing the point. They are reading fiction as history, or, to use Joseph Campbell's metaphor, reading poetry as prose.
There is lots you can take away from most any religious text that doesn't require you to believe in invisible spirits or the like.

To put it another way: You don't need to believe that Lord of the Rings or Stranger in a Strange Land are true stories in order to learn something from them. In fact, the opposite is true: if you read them as true, historical accounts, you are going to miss the underlying philosophy. The same can be said for Religion. You don't have to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was literally the son of the invisible sky-father of the Jewish people in order to believe it would be really nice to try and get along better with your neighbors.

What I tell my religious friends is this:

My non-belief in God(s) is based purely on lack of empirical evidence. I try to live a good life because I think it is better to be a solution than a problem. If, when I die, I find myself standing before God, I'll tell him, 'Man, you fooled me!', and Him and I are going to laugh and laugh...

Rob

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 11:37

By that definition, these atheists are religious nutjobs. They believe in the absence of God so strongly that they are trying to actively convert people.

I'm glad someone else realizes that.

That is, I believe religion is a (mostly) positive force in society, and something in which everyone should have a background. I went to churches of various flavors all through-out my childhood, and I tend to get on better with people who are faithful (in a laid-back kind of way) than I do with raving believers or non-believers. Mostly, what I ask is that you have seriously considered the question.

There is lots you can take away from most any religious text that doesn't require you to believe in invisible spirits or the like.

See, I don't believe theres anyone sitting on a different plane of existence listening to and answering prayers, but I do believe in the power of prayer. I've seen it work too many times for it to be mere coincidence. I believe that you answer your own prayers. Even the bible backs this up with "God helps those who help themselves".

People are generally products of their environment. That's why some people never rise above their "station" in life. If you tell a kid his whole life that he will never amount to anything, he will usually believe you and end up amounting to nothing (there are exceptions). That's what I call negative energy. Think negatively and you'll get negative results.

Praying relaxes people, it brings faith and hope and what I call, positive energy. Think positively and you get positive results.

People need faith. They should find faith in themselves though, not in God.
Religion is a crutch, but some people need a crutch in order to get by. Take that crutch away from millions of people, and they will all fall. That won't make the world a better place, no matter how much you hate religion. Ending organized religion, as we know it, will take generations to do right. You can't just ban the word God and expect the world to see reason right away.

From: tonka [Horace Raper]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 13:55

Ah, there's nothing quite so bad as the stupid atheist. The stupid atheist is just as bad as the stupid believer in that they make the same logical mistakes over and over again, and never provide an argument for any of their adle pated "opinions." The stupid atheist and believer both agree that atheism is a belief akin to that of religious belief in that both require faith in lieu of "knowledge." No, stupid atheist, you are wrong again. Invest in a dictionary. Atheism is not a belief. In fact, it is the absence of a belief. The absence of a belief is not, in turn, a belief; for that is called a contradiction, oh stupid atheist.

Then, of course, there are those atheists that say, based on that chimpy reasoning, that each person's two cents is just as important or significant as everyone else's, and defend both sides of an issue. No, stupid, contrary to your "programming," some CONCLUSIONS are BETTER THAN some opinions, mainly because a conclusion implies an argument, valid or INVALID, and an opinion can be had without any introspection or reasoning whatsoever. For example, this is an opinion:

If the country didn't celebrate imaginary people, our retailers would never see profit without significantly raising prices and cutting costs.

As for fundies advocating a christian theocracy in the U.S., what about that creepy, sanctimonious fat sack of shit William Bennett? Well, that racist cud chewer works for the claremont institute founded and funded by Howard Ahmanson Jr. Jr. is a fundie hell bent on establishing just such a theocracy, and has spent millions toward the realization of that impossible dream.

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 14:40

One of my pet sayings is:

You can't change culture by fiat.

Look through history at everyone who has tried (Stalin, Mao, Robespierre). They best they did was terroirzing folks into playing along until they died.

I like your views on prayer. I think it is silly talking to air, and rude to make demands on God. But if you think of it as meditation, in certainly has value.

Taking a broader view: I think history shows a (generally) upward trend toward improvement..at least, as far as the human race goes. Anything that has lasted throughout history, and is present in every culture must have some value to the species. That includes prayer, religion, marriage, government...as well as rebellion, doom-saying, adultery, and lots of other negative stuff. It's better to look hard and long at this stuff, and try to explain it, rather than just jumping up and down screaming "Bad! Bad! Oh so very bad!"

Oh...and its also fun to cruise website dedicated to gawking at the whole damned freak show. Thank you, Rotten.com folks, for helping us all slow down and get a good look at the traffic accident.

Rob

From: angryyoungpoor [Negative Creep]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 15:10

"The statement that you don't like porn because you're a woman is ridiculous.

I'm a heterosexual woman and I really enjoy porn, preferring the videos or a good live strip show over the girlie magazines. Being a woman is not the reason you don't like porn, it is far more likely that you don't like it because you are insecure about open expressions of human sexuality and uninhibited displays of the human body and so get no pleasure from viewing it. It's fine that you don't like porn but don't use your gender as an excuse."

Weeeell ... I wouldn't throw it to "dainty about expressions of sexuality" right away. I mean I'm a woman who watches porn and likes it, but after a while I recognise that it is all the same and it, for the most part, panders to hetero-men. Basically the woman's role is providing friction for the penis and then catching his cum on *insert body part here* after he finishes (but she never does)... it just doesn't appeal to me as I can only identify with the female and she looks ridiculous (the guy usually less-than-mediocre) and is getting nothing from it. Though I could understand somebody disliking it and their reasoning being because "they're a woman" for those reasons though recognise that it doesn't explain much, my solution to that is not to *hate* porn or want it gone but for, well, there to be better porn and more availablity and accessability to the kind that "represents" a wider audience.

That'd be pretty cool.

From: becouchgrass [danesbong]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 15:19

By that definition, these atheists are religious nutjobs. They believe in the absence of God so strongly that they are trying to actively convert people.

I'm glad someone else realizes that.

Yep, thats me alright. I've been toying with idea of athiest missionaries armed with the origin of species and astronomy texts and fossils and sending them into the south, and other backward places.

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 15:40

Invest in a dictionary.
Good idea, lets try that.

Atheism is not a belief. In fact, it is the absence of a belief

From Merriam Webster

Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

Let's say this entry is incorrect. If an atheist says "God does not exist", does he believe that statement to be true? Does he believe it to be false? Or does he just say it without caring whether theres any truth in his statement? Maybe he just disbelieves the falsehood in his claim? Please explain.

In fact, it is the absence of a belief. The absence of a belief is not, in turn, a belief; for that is called a contradiction,

You're correct, dictionaries are great investments!

Main Entry: con·tra·dic·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'dik-sh&n
Function: noun

1 : act or an instance of contradicting
2 a : a proposition, statement, or phrase that asserts or implies both the truth and falsity of something b : a statement or phrase whose parts contradict each other <a round square is a contradiction in terms>
3 a : logical incongruity b : a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions are inconsistent or contrary to one another

A contradiction is not the absence of belief, it's more of a denial of veracity, or a belief that a statement is incorrect. For example, "I am contradicting your assertion that atheism is not a belief".

You ain't exactly the best person to be calling others stupid.

From: elektrodot [kaleigh b]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 15:45

hey angryyoungpoor....

im working on it

From: janedoe [jane]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 16:49

Atheists BELIEVE there is NO deity or God.
Christians BELIEVE in GOD. Muslims BELIEVE in ALLAH, etc.
Agnostics (like me) DO NOT BELIEVE in any kind of deity or God. I am a scientist.

From: miscreant
Date: 4-Dec-2005 17:01

ditto what canadagirl said. (god am I lazy)

From: antinomianist [AERDNA]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 17:18

From: aulduron [Aulduron]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 15:40

Invest in a dictionary.
Good idea, lets try that.

Atheism is not a belief. In fact, it is the absence of a belief

From Merriam Webster
----
Ewwwwwwwww Websters! C'mon! Use a REAL dictionary!

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 17:19

Jane Doe:

Uhmmm...not exactly:

Theists believe in one or more gods.

Atheist do not believe in any gods.

Agnostics believe that the existence or non-existence of God(s) is unknowable.

My Atheism is strictly based on the current evidence. If I am shown enough of evidence to support the conclusion that the existence of God(s) is the more reasonable proposition, than I am prepared to change that view in favor of Him (or Them).

If pressed, however, I will confess to being an Agnostic, rather than an Atheist. The existence question of God is a metaphysical (rather than physical) question. It exists outside the realm of provable, rational experience. God(s), as generally thought of, exist outside the realm of the known Universe, and human experience. It is a question that cannot be answered until after one dies...if even then.

On the other hand, that means that to even debate the question is useless. It can't be answered rationally, nor can its conclusions be usefully applied to this world around us. And I think it is best to leave metaphysics to the philosophers. And then leave the philosophers out somewhere in New Jersey.

"The results of the match...God exists by two falls to a knock-out."

Ron

From: conspiracy [Theory]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 18:28

I tried to trade porn for sex ... only the fat girls said yes....

From: hawk3 [tritium]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 18:42

Rip-off bastards, I gave them my bible (took it from the motel dresser) and in return got a Mad magazine with the pages stuck together. Spy vs Spy isn't bad. If you look at Alfred in just the right light, he looks sort of like a really homely Sissy Spacek.

This proves it, God has turned his (her) back on atheists.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 20:19

but could you see where atheism could be considered just another lack of belief? what does an atheist replace his or her theistic religion with? are they to replace god and dogma with un-god and un-dogma? atheism wouldn't exist were it not for religion. they can't push FOR anything, only AGAINST other things.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 20:20

nihilism is the most fun of all.

From: genkimon [genkimon]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 20:54

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 20:19

but could you see where atheism could be considered just another lack of belief? what does an atheist replace his or her theistic religion with? are they to replace god and dogma with un-god and un-dogma? atheism wouldn't exist were it not for religion. they can't push FOR anything, only AGAINST other things.

Perhaps for these particular atheists, atheism is just a lack of belief. However atheism does not, in and of itself, mean one does not have a religious belief system. It means one does not believe in a god, or believes there is no god. Buddhists do not believe in god, and yet they are religious. There are well-established non-theistic religions, and have been for a couple of thousand years. You can be an atheist and push for something, there is no inherent contradiction.

From: tonkarespond [ed led]
Date: 4-Dec-2005 21:32

Oh my, you're not too smart. First, you completely misunderstood what I had written about a contradiction. Lemme translate what I said for you. If I believe that Satan hates you and I do not believe that Satan hates you at the same time, then I have contradicted myself. Propositions x and y are contradictory if and only if x and y cannot both be true at the same time. Now, to make you get it, if I lack a belief in x, then that lack of a belief in x is not a belief I have, for that is a contradiction. If I lack a belief in God, for instance, then that lack of a belief is not a belief. Perhaps you're responding to something else: I believe that I lack a belief in God--and this is NECESSARILY NOT the same thing (mean different things, daaaaaah) as the proposition "I lack a belief in God." Nowhere did I claim that "absence of a belief in God" is a contradiction; that was your stupid strawman.

Now, an atheist is not atheism, right? You defined an atheist, or representative of atheism. I spoke only of atheism, not a particular atheist, which, as per your posts, can be stupid enough to irrationally believe (faithfully) that god does not exist. Atheism is simply lack of a belief in the existence of god, or DISbelief in god's existence. Let's humor that it's a belief that god does not exist. Well, is "lack of a belief in God" synonymous with "a belief that god does not exist"? I don't think so for precisely the same reason I think that there are smart and stupid atheists (the former's reliance on faith), but let's see. (Feel free to skip the next two paragraphs; they're not that interesting or relevant to the response)

What's the content of the beliefs "god does not exist" and "god exists", i.e., what are their referents? I think that a lot of people think the referent of the latter is a being that is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent (I don't even think they're propositions. They're both inconceivable, and hence meaningless. To concieve of an all knowing being, you'd have to know everything, which you don't.) But, for an atheist, who LACKS A BELIEF in god, both beliefs have no referent (entity). So, if the belief that god does not exist has no referent, is it really a belief about the way things are? No, it's a belief about the way things aren't of the form "I believe that x is not the case." But, if it's a belief about the way things aren't, its referent is what exactly? Nothing, for nothing IS that satisfies its description by the meaning of the belief itself. So, part of the meaning of the belief is that the belief's referent is nothing, and hence, refers to NOTHING. A lack of belief, or disbelief, also refers to nothing. Is the belief that god does not exist a belief at all if it refers to nothing? Maybe it's of the form "I believe that x is false." But, that statement, if meaningful, just refers to something that I believe is the case, which is certainly NOT what "I believe god does not exist" refers to, which is NOTHING. Hence, it's not like form "I believe x is false" at all. I conclude, then, that the "belief" that god does not exist is not really a belief. But, if it's not a belief, and it's meaningful (let's assume), what is it? Well, I think it's disbelief in the existence of God.

Now, you think long and hard about the above, because it'll be awful easy for you to fuck it all up by misunderstanding what I wrote. A lot easier than your fuckup of the logical contradiction I wrote out in my previous post.
----------------
Let's say this entry is incorrect. If an atheist says "God does not exist", does he believe that statement to be true? Does he believe it to be false? Or does he just say it without caring whether theres any truth in his statement? Maybe he just disbelieves the falsehood in his claim? Please explain.

---------------

This is a really easy question to answer--a lot easier than the question you didn't ask, but I answered nonetheless, above. "God does not exist," a smart atheist would say is a true proposition, because they believe it. Why do they believe it's a true proposition? Not because they BELIEVE god doesn't exist, but because THEY DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF in god's existence=disbelief in god's existence=lack of a belief in the existence of god. What part of THEY DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF, or DO NOT BELIEVE, do you have difficulty comprehending? What's confused in your question are the propositions "I believe God does not exist is true" and "I believe god does not exist." These are distinct. The latter IS not synonymous with the former because I could believe "I believe 'god does not exist' is true" while believing "I believe god does not exist" is false.

Oh, here's the american heritage dictionary definition of ATHEISM: 1. a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of god or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or Gods. 2. Godlessness; immorality. One and part of two are completely consistent with smart atheism AND stupid atheism.

Disbelief: refusal or reluctance to believe

From: robwrigley
Date: 4-Dec-2005 21:46

Wow! Now I am confused too!

Does all that mean that pi = 3.0 ?

Did I mention the bit about dumping all the philosophers off somewhere in Jersey? There is an empty patch out off Route 80, just past Hohokus.

Rob

From: splittheatom [Assless]
Date: 5-Dec-2005 01:18

robwrigley:
"If pressed, however, I will confess to being an Agnostic, rather than an Atheist. The existence question of God is a metaphysical (rather than physical) question. It exists outside the realm of provable, rational experience. God(s), as generally thought of, exist outside the realm of the known Universe, and human experience.".

That's much how I see it. What we acknowledge to be "true", in every practical sense, should be based on the use of empirical evidence and reason, the scientific method being the best system we've got. If we ever found "Natural" proof of the existence of a God it wouldn't be "supernatural" would it? Until the evidence is there we just have to learn to live with uncertainty. What is "true" should not be determined by how it makes us feel, what psycho/emotional holes it fills, or what effects it has on society.
Like aulduron pointed out, religion is a crutch that many can't live without. It's just too bad that so many people are so lacking in basic intellectual honesty, critical thinking skills, foresight, or self-restraint that they need some authority outside themselves to guide them and keep them from self-destructing.

"I went to churches of various flavors all through-out my childhood, and I tend to get on better with people who are faithful (in a laid-back kind of way) than I do with raving believers or non-believers".

I was raised as a Catholic and I think that applies to almost everyone, other than those doing the raving of course. That's why I don't like what the "porn for Bibles" people are doing.

-----------------------------

aulduron:
"...but I do believe in the power of prayer. I've seen it work too many times for it to be mere coincidence".

I hope you don't mean intercessory prayer, where people pray for someone to be helped. I know prayer by the individual in need can help, but so do placebos. Not one peer-reviewed study of intercessory prayer has conclusively shown it to be helpful *when the person being prayed for is ignorant of the fact*. In fact, in at least one famous (infamous) case the "positive" results of an intercessory prayer study turned out to be deeply flawed, even fabricated:

[findarticles.com]

Besides that, anecdotal accounts do not constitute proof.

-----------------------------

superpants
"shouldn't it be 'porn for bibles' insead"?

You're right; I goofed.

From: kittie [veil of honesty, how convoluted can you get?]
Date: 5-Dec-2005 06:51

genkimon, no no no no no... buddhist might be atheist but atheist does not equal buddhist.
-speaking hypothetically-
atheists can't prove there is no god, universal negative. yadayadayada. i don't think i've met an atheist yet who says (s)he KNOWS there is no god, thank goodness. oh yeah some exist, i'm sure, but it's not necessarily atheist.

i know christianity draws a line between knowledge and belief, as well.

i'm worried another ravi zacharias might pop up here.

right right, atheists can be religious, but NO, as an atheist, you CAN NOT push for anything, you can push for things not related to your lack of a god, but you can only push AGAINST other people's belief in god, as far as your atheism goes. as far as your other religious beliefs go, have carte blanche.

so here you have people who say the bible is a force for bad in the world. do they say it's because "there is no god"? if they do, they've got screws loose.

the bible fucks with the heads of the gullible.
the bible is an easy tool for fucking with the heads of the gullible.
(bogymen in the closet)
the bible can be used to justify crap otherwise justifiable by greed (tribes of ham)
you've claimed to know the word of the invisible cloud monsters, an atom bomb doesn't have those powers of persuasion.
it's not proving a universal negative to prove this true.
nooooo religion is not evil, it's just USED for evil and as long as it's there, it will be used for evil and
one can argue it's not necessary for good, either.

also they find, like agnostics, that there's no proof of a divine being.

From: bigmiker73 [Fat mikey sez Hello]
Date: 5-Dec-2005 12:52

And who wants to bet this won't be circulated in every church and plastered over the CBN as being evidence about something?

From: assfacemcgee [Jim]
Date: 5-Dec-2005 13:55

Here is where his registration for sex offenders is found: [ky.us]

You can also search for "Reneer" here to find him:
[kentuckystatepolice.org]

Also, in case you were wondering, Sodomy, 1st degree is sodomy (of course) with 1 of three contingencies (1) Forcible compulsion, (2) Physical Helplessness, or (3) less than 12 years of age

So, Mr. Reneer is an anal rapist and maybe of a handicapped person, or someone under 12. Nice.

From: miscreant
Date: 5-Dec-2005 19:57

From: gnobs [devon]
Date: 3-Dec-2005 12:40

Psh the Bible isn't the negative force in the world, as Captain Ryan Walker says. Moreover that people misinterpret many of the statements made and take 'the literal truth' for everything it says.

....and in it's misinterpretation lies its negative effect. I love this idea! Porn has gotta be better for you than any religious text.

From: blahblahblah [glkjfdgdflkj]
Date: 6-Dec-2005 03:11

Wow, almost everyone here is acting as bad as the people they're bitching about, talk about ironic hypocrisy.

but here's a news flash for you, there'd be the same problems if religion was out of the picture. Humans have been going at each other for differeing viewpoints and religion is only one thing out of many that causes people to kill one another.

Atheists are as annoying as the republican christians, and just as hypocritical!

From: arthuride [Arthur Ide]
Date: 6-Dec-2005 03:42

blahblahblah [glkjfdgdflkj] is asleep, or just is undereducated. Religion has caused more suffering than any other force. It is because of religion that the world has suffered from crusades (Christians killed Moslems and Jews, and the Moslems returned the favor); led to witchcraft trials, murders, and executions; incarcerated and executed lesbians and homosexuals; covered up child molestations by pastors (such as Jim Bakker) and priests; favored and supported wars (regular theme in the bible, such as in the book of Joshua, etc), and was entoned by the papacy (Innocent III: Deus Vuelte, at Claremont in 1099), Hitler ("Gott mitt eus", at Berlin, 1940), George W. Bush ("we are on a crusade" at Washington, 2001), and other pillars of evil from Condi Rice to Idi Amin.

The few positive comments in this vile book, the bible, are--as are the bad ones--plagarized from various Babylonian legends (Gilgamesh) and laws (Hammurabi's Code), Akkadian inscriptions, and the writings of various other people. Abraham is nothing more than Brahama (put the final "a" in front of the initial "b"), and Sara is Sevi (goddess of spite, gile and war).

But then, the bible is no more absurd than the Qu'ran (or if you wish to spell it Koran, it is okay), and other "scriptures" who have done more damage to civilization than anything else (the Taliban (an Arabic word that translates as "religious studies [seminary] student") and the right-wing religious wackos from Al-Quida to their American counterparts: the evangelicals and Baptists (with Baptist televangelist Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Chavez of Venesuela, to Baptist Jerry Falwell announcing that the equal-opportunity virus AIDS is his devil-god's punishment for homosexuality--even when it inflicts heterosexual women).

I have been born-again--and like a new baby have no religion at all. God is just another word for "I am too lazy to figure it out for myself so I will accept what another tells me".